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Post by InstinctRacer on Oct 2, 2007 20:30:13 GMT -8
I am sorry guys, but after watching the last few weekends i feel that the members of SF SCCA are treated like abused step kids. How much money did you pay this past weekend? More than most peoples auto payment. The first race they threw the green when the lead Vees were coming through T-9, the field was completely stretch out, and there was no real chance for a fair race. After speaking with the starters and expressing my opinion, i was told " Well is it our fault that the cars don't stay bunched up" then i asked "why can't we have a split start" and was told "it is too much work, we cant handle the extra work on such a busy weekend, and how can we control the second group, if the first group gets the green?" And in my best pissed off Miata Driver attitude i said "well there could always be a stop and go penalty for anyone who jumps the green, but again that would be to much work". Where am i going with this? I feel we are all spending way too much money and effort to be treated like crap.
And now for the mixed classes-It could work, but if i see another close race broken up by some lame ass CF,SF,FF i am going to go to some small underground arms dealer and buy a RPG and start picking off the lame. Come on if you are driving a car with 20+ more Hp than a Vee and are so d**n slow that you can't even turn a time faster than than a Vee, then for gods sake don't try to race with the Vee's. Do these guys not get it?
Options-We as a group need to do something, the SF SCCA board has listened with deaf ears, but again our numbers don't help. We need to insist on split starts, or maybe look at other clubs. I know that NASA has a good solid program, and is very interested in formula cars. Maybe we tag along with some car clubs, and run on their weekends. If your not interested in going to the runoffs, then SCCA has nothing else to offer over the other clubs. And if it is the picture trophy you want when you win the championship, then i got you covered.
I know that i don't post much on this site, but i have had enough! This is a great group of people that i want to continue to be around and race with, but SF SCCA is not where i am going to spend my money. I challenge everyone to go out of region and see what it is like to be appreciated and welcomed.
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Post by qposner on Oct 2, 2007 21:40:52 GMT -8
I don't race more than a few times a year in SFR, but Colin hit the nail on the head. I have said it before and I will say it again, SFR is a joke. If it weren't for getting to see all of you and run some great tracks, it wouldn't be worth the aggravation.
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Post by btatum on Oct 3, 2007 1:32:14 GMT -8
So the Sf region treats their members like a bunch of abused step kids and the board can't hear?
Even though we have had special anniversary races, and made FV a feature class, made special test days, keep FV in a special run group several years ago even though the numbers did not support it, arrange special parking in the paddock, went to extra lengths to make the racing affordable with a spec tire, made special FV only races this year, split qualifying, bonus races, etc. I guess this is how abused step children are treated. I would hate to see how a spoiled brats gets treated! But since the board does not listen then I guess we do not respond to the needs of our members.
The price of a double regional is very high especially at Laguna, but when you compare the price of a regional at Thunderhill against other clubs we are very inexpensive. Thunderhill costs $220 for a regional. Conference charges $285 for almost the same amount of track time. Dollar for dollar I think that is a very good value. Now lets look at the run group we are in. We have FF, CF, F500, and FV. Check all the neighboring regions and FV is stuck with all formula cars or with Spec Racer Fords. So go ahead and run with other regions and get a FA shoved up you tail pipe or better yet have a spec racer run you off the track.
We have listened when it comes to split starts. FV shares the run group with the other classes and by the most democratic method in the world (a majority vote) split starts lost out to straight up starts. If the FV world wants to win this one they need more votes.
Frankly FV gets a lot of attention and to be honest about it I do not think it is at all appreciated. I just got back from Seattle and was all enthused about working on the 45th Anniversary Race for next year but since I can not hear and everyone is an abused step child there is probably no reason for me to waste my time.
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Post by InstinctRacer on Oct 3, 2007 6:37:51 GMT -8
Even though you are on the board, this was not a shot at you. If anything you are solely responsible for making FV what it is today (In the good sense). I do appreciate having a member of our class on the board and you have helped our class very much. But honestly the other regions out there do treat their members like customers, and it feels that in SF we are treated like we are pests. Yes i do believe as a group we need to raise our voice and be heard.
Please don't be frustrated by my comment, and quit doing what you have done so well for this class. It's my opinion and i wanted to voice it, because i would vee racing to be back whee it once was.
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Post by Bruce on Oct 3, 2007 6:54:18 GMT -8
Blake,
A slight correction in that democratic vote you noted, the split start got the majority of the votes. The problem with the start was that the Fords were spread out from half way up the straight to between turn 9 and 10. It was not good and I really was surprised that a green flag was given. The lead Fords caught the Vee's in the second lap. The other problem was that under the yellow the lead Fords passed some Vee's between turns 3 and 4 and left them a lap down on the restart to the lead 2 Vee's.
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Post by InstinctRacer on Oct 3, 2007 6:59:14 GMT -8
so why didn't the split start happen? Oh yeah to much work. You know i am starting to sound allot like Mr McCarthy guess too many rum cokes with a guy and you start talking like him.
Al thanks for saving the FV's space again. Not sure if it was the SCCA that let you, or it was because you are just a fantastic guy but either way we all appreciate it.
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Post by qposner on Oct 3, 2007 7:32:03 GMT -8
Blake,
My shot was not aimed at the board, it is the way I have been treated at the track by officials. I apologize for snapping like I did. I guess I haven't lived down the MArge Binks fiasco (although she is from Cal Club). It just seems like everytime we are down there, someone messes with us just for the sake of messing with us. There are alot of "Little Napoloeans" running around the paddock with flashing hazards and radios.
As for your work, please do not stop. Hell, you are mostly responsible for the great vee fields down there that keep us coming back. We will continue to do out part and head down for your Nationals. I just hope you keep with it because the class will be hurt if you don't. That is why our FV fields are pretty much nonexistent for most Conference races.
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sweenrace
National Driver
.....rub'ns racin......
Posts: 450
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Post by sweenrace on Oct 3, 2007 8:33:20 GMT -8
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Post by hardingfv32 on Oct 3, 2007 9:11:34 GMT -8
Quinn
Hopefully you won't have Marge Binks to whine about anymore. She resigned from CalClub. I don't know why. She has always gotten mixed reviews down here, but she does get thinks done!
Brian
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Post by hardingfv32 on Oct 3, 2007 9:40:26 GMT -8
I think the old timers are just comparing the past with present day. I bet the new drivers are not that unhappy with current conditions. Blake and other club officials have done a great job optimizing the situation under the present conditions. Everything has been well thought out. Other classes or clubs might provide better race enjoyment for some. Each driver has to review the choices available to them. SCCA is not going to change for you.
Blake....Don't bust your butt on the 45th. Just shoot for a FV only race like we had this summer and call it the Birthday weekend. That should be politically doable.
Brian
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Post by btatum on Oct 3, 2007 10:49:59 GMT -8
Colin and Quinn have good points about their SF experience. I am happy to hear a clarification regarding board versus official grips. As a consumer everyone has the right to complain especially when a large sum of money is spent and a less then satisfactory result is achieved. That being said anyone that has a particular issue with how a race was run or a procedure that can be approved upon by all means the board encourages that type of dialog. If anyone would like to submit a letter to the wheel we can spur positive dialog with the Stewards and the fellow competitors. I was not at the race but it sounds like the front row of the fords took off on the pace lap and strung out the field. Then instead of waving the off the start the green flag was given screwing up the race for everyone except the leaders. Obviously there are several things that could be addressed. One is the speed of the pace car, two the obligation of the pole sitter, three the decision to throw the green. As a board we want people to discuss the issues and we want to work on ways to fix them the best we can. This is a perfect opportunity to get a reply from the race officials as to why something like this happened. Addressing why the split start did not happen: At the May race at Laguna we had a group four drivers meeting and there was a vote at that meeting on the split start issue. The vees lost out because the majority of the FF drivers like the straight up start, which works fine at the national level because most of the national drivers are a lot faster then the vee drivers. It really becomes an issue at the regionals when we have some painfully slow CFs. I remind everyone the procedure for petitioning a split start is still part of the supps and is still an alternative. Send in your letters or let me know and I will copy your posting on this board to the wheel because the majority of the people involved in the SF region want to make sure everyone who races with us enjoys themselves and gets the best treatment we can possibly deliver.
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Post by Bruce on Oct 3, 2007 16:09:19 GMT -8
Blake,
I've read the supps and the way they are written we will never be able to get a split start. I have gone through these procedures and wonder why they, the top qualifiers, have more weight than everyone else. I have also been told to get Peter Nosler's signature or they wouldn't even consider a split start. He like you voted against split starts and has said not to OK any, to the drivers he helps. I have never had any problem getting over 50% of the field to sign the petition for a split start. "I say that all that should be required is 50% of the field plus 1. Everyone should be equal. We all pay the same and should be treated the same. One person, one vote, no one should carry more weight than anyone else. Please take this up with the board and if you need a petition I will gather one for you.
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Post by dave FF 50-aka "Harm" on Oct 3, 2007 16:44:16 GMT -8
Blake,Bruce, Brian, Collin, Quinn, Ian (did I miss anyone?) The pace car's speed was good (IMHO), the pole sitter keep the speed down from T11 to mid pit wall, the start seemed very good to me (2nd row). Part of the problem seems that we do not start to line up 2 by 2 until halfway between T9 & T10. With 50+ cars, that means cars are still not at the Cork Screw yet and do not have enough time to get lined up before the start. I think we need to have every one 2X2 before the pole sitter makes the turn @ T11. As for split starts, The lead pack of FFs start catching the back marker Vees within a few laps and then our race is no longer a race as it is a matter of luck where you catch a pack of slower cars and get slowed yourself. I like Laguna the best because one gets held up only at the Cork Screw whereas @ Sears or Thill, I have followed a slower car for what seemed like days through the Esses at either track and either loss touch with the leader or had the guy chasing me catch me. I have been in run groups with FA down to FVs. I'll take our groupings any day. I agree with Blake about SRF. They can hit you and not even notice it. What about enforcing a 110% qualifying rule. Means if you don't qual well, you could be going home. Not very driver friendly, but gets rid of the slow guys in ALL classes. dave
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Post by qposner on Oct 3, 2007 17:03:54 GMT -8
Dave,
I understand a fast FF will catch a slow FV in a few laps if there is a split start. However, the chances of you guys getting through strung out back maker vees is much better than a fast vee fighting backmarker fords the entire race. Just seems a bit more equitable since most of the time (I understand not all) you will make it though. We never make it through anything since we fight these idiots a substantial portion of the race.
Just my $.02 from an outsider! :-)
Quinn
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Post by btatum on Oct 3, 2007 20:37:27 GMT -8
Bruce, You are right I was not in favor of the split starts when polled at the drivers meeting. That being said when ever a petition was presented to me I have signed it because I felt the majority of the vee guys wanted it. You are also right that it is hard to get the petition through they way the supps are written. Write up your proposed change to the split start rule and let me know who supports it. I will bring it up at the board meeting and we will see how it goes.
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