Split starts

[DerElf]

Please post your comments and concerns

[dave FF 50-aka "Harm"]

HI Boys and Girls
The SF Region has a new supp for group 4. The Vees will grid behind the Fords but will remain in close contact prior to the start. Good news/bad news: This will eliminate the separate start (only one green flag) and keep the two groups as close as possible at the start. In a true split start, the second group is about 1/3 of a lap behind and if that group is slower, it means the cars of the faster group will catch up to and pass the slower cars much sooner because of the head start (1/3 of a lap @ race speed vs conclusion of parade lap prior to the start for the slower cars).
Typically the starter will give a green if the front 4 to 6 rows look good. The Vees will need to behave as they will be 15+ rows back. Maybe the starter will use the black flag for stop and go's for drivers who "anticipate" the start.
Check the schedule for April 2-3 @ Laquna. Group 4 gets TWO races (the old bonus race).
dave jalen

[brian]

I must be missing something. I just read the supps on the SF webpage and they say nothing unique about Group 4 having a special grouping with vees being in the back.

I think I can speak for most vee guys and say we know how to start from the back of the pack and we probably "behave" as well as most. The problem's occur when you have a Ford, that is running the same, or slower times as a vees. It's obvious that these Fords are being parked in the turns. At least when we have a split start, these snails have a couple of laps before the vees catch them.

The GCR is very clear about qualifying and starting positions and the only legal way to separate Fords and Vees is with a split start.

[Der Administrator]

Dave;

Did you find those Supps online or did they come in a packet in mail? If they are online please post a link so everybody can have a gander. I would not be surprised if they aren't online yet, I have been after the SFRSCCA Region Webmaster for a month to get rid of the "Formula Vee" link on the region's web page, it leads to a site that no longer exists, and to add the Left Coast message board. If "return receipts" are anything to go by he hasn't even read my e-mails.

[DerElf]

(If this seems Schitzo to some folks e-mail me and I will explain)

Dave;

The format you described worked great for us last year and the only problems I encountered was with a particular Ford at Laguna that would pass me, Spin, pass me again and so on.
Otherwise I thought the Ford guys we were running with were pretty d**n considerate.

[Bruce]

Brian,

I found them on the race schedules.

[DerElf]

Thanks Bruce, you are "Ever vigilant"

[dave FF 50-aka "Harm"]

Bruce is correct. If you go to the race schedule for Apr 2-3 and view the pdf. you will see an "*" for group 4 and in the bottom right corner it states the Fords/Vees start proceedure.
You are quite accurate about cars that park in the non straight sections of the track. They are a pain for ALL involved.
Most importantly, I was not trying to get anyone upset about my off handed comment regarding "leaving the formation" early at the start. I was just thinking that with our new run group size (45+), the last bunch of rows will lucky to be entering the last turn prior to the S/F straight (i.e. cars will be between turn 10 and 11 @ Laguna) when the green flag flys.
All that aside, with the great spring weather, I'm ready to start racing NOW. Oops, I guess that would be jumping the start ;D
dave jalen

[brian]

Seems to be a strange way of telling us that split starts may not be considered. Maybe it's just their way of telling the vees not to create a defacto split start. We've been know to fall back a bit on the pace lap. If the slower Fords are back within the vee field I guess it wouldn't be fair to not to group up tightly with the rest of the field. Maybe the comp director heard about the deal years ago when the vee group staged away from pregrid and showed up enmasse after the 1 minute board and created their own split start.

I'm not sure if this note on the schedule represents a supp. SInce it doesn't appear on the official supps, which are reviewed and approved by Topeka and the Exec. Steward, maybe it's not enforceable?

[brian]

Just talked with a steward and it seems the vees created problems by falling back too far on split starts so they've come up with the idea of gridding all the fords together, regardless of times, and having all the vees right behind. The fact we haven't had a split start in some time wasn't an issue they expected a request to have one this year.

The GCR, 7.1.5, Paragraph A, states that cars start in order of times regardless of class and engine displacement unless the Supplemental Regulations clearly set forth a different method. Since this procedure is not set forth in the supps, but on the schedule, I'm not sure it's legal.

[GregM]

My nickels worth is that we should be gridded according to qualifying times without regard to class. It's a bit silly to keep the V's behind a slower driver(s) when the slow cars are going to create a hairball at the green. We're supposed to be able to race with a mix of cars, let's try and prove it.

Counterpoint to my statement above, with better acceleration in the Fords, it's probably prudent to go with a segregated start for a race or 2 to see if it is feasible to mix the grid. A mixed grid will be my preference any time.

Personally, I'd rather have Ian and Rick next to me on the grid than a host of other cars, no names mentioned out of propriety. ;~)

Anyone who needed a dose of speed shoulda been at Thill for Drivers School, superb weather, great new crop of drivers, and some decent seat time for the cost of race gas and a willingness to pass on whatever you can.
Unfortunately, I will miss the Laguna Opener, SF Region continues to schedule races after I make my vacation plans, so all of you: BEHAVE!!!

Side note, I heard Bruce Blondin is going to "race" a Spec Miata.

Ciao mi amiche!

[DerElf]

Greg;

Sorry but the guys at Proformula said it best back in the Seventies:

"If you can't see your wheels, you're not really racing!'

[qposner]

I have a question that really hasn't been answered in the 23 years I have been around the track and the 13 years I have been racing FV. What is the problem with split starts anyhow? I have been involved in countless split starts and have not seen any problems. Why do the various regions constantly think its a bad idea when FV has shown we can do it properly??

[mack]

Quinn,

Bureaucrats have to DO SOMETHING, ie., solve problems
even where none exist.

Mack

[GregM]

The only real issue with a split start is that it's rarely if ever waved off, and the front of the pack knows it, and they take advantage of it, creating more than a few issues for the Stewards. It's not the second wave that's at issue, it's the front 5 rows of the front group.

At Buttonwillow in October, we had 3 splits in the run group, with the FA/FC/FM's in the front, Fords/FV's in the middle, and the big pack of S2's in the back. Now that was friggin' exciting!

Turn 2 at Laguna is going to be very interesting, turn 2 at Sears Point is going to be very interesting, and Turn 1 at Thunderhill is going to be VERY interesting for a while.