bbonow
Regional Driver
Posts: 67
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Post by bbonow on May 30, 2009 13:56:11 GMT -8
I know that Eric and Lou have raced a couple of times down South, but I was curious to hear if Blake or anyone else had FST plans this summer in NorPac. Any cars being built?
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Post by btatum on Jun 1, 2009 9:23:41 GMT -8
bill, I have not raced this year at all due to my son's involvement in little league. I will race once baseball is over probably with Lou down south. There is absolutely no activity with new cars being build in nor cal.
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bbonow
Regional Driver
Posts: 67
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Post by bbonow on Jun 13, 2009 13:01:39 GMT -8
Interesting, we're still growing here in the middle west with 3 new/conversion cars this year. At most of our regional series events, we outnumber FV's 4:1. The forcast for the next event (Nelson Ledges) is 16 FST's. At the moment, only 2 FV's are registered for the same event.
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Post by btatum on Jun 15, 2009 16:09:28 GMT -8
I do not know why the resistance on the west coast. The car is fun to drive, costs no more then a vee to race and makes sense. One of the problems is the guys with vees have a lot invested in the motor and spare parts and can not see them selves past that. Having only one person racing has not helped, and all the people talking about racing them have been hurt by the economy. The whole formula car world out here and taken a beating by Spec Miata. It seems that most of the new blood in this area only wants to race something with fenders and a roof. Something that can be rode hard and put away wet. I am open for any suggestions on how to get it going!
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Post by Dan Wise on Jun 15, 2009 19:42:30 GMT -8
Blake,
Consider what the drug dealers have always done with the kids. The pushers give them their first taste for free, then charge the ones who come back and turn them into users.
I have nowhere near your experience in building and selling cars. I think you and your dad build and prepare some of the nicest cars around. The average car enthusiast is simply unaware of how much fun (and how much cooler) they could have racing a purpose built racecar.
People have no idea how low the cost of running an FST is. Most people think Spec Miata is a cheap class because you can find one a cheap worn out one on craigslist and bolt in roll cage to go run track days and race. I know of several guys who stepped into Greg Mercurio's FC on a free test day and immediately sold their cars and bought FCs. Bill Kincaid is one. I think your market is in the paddock, spec Miata drivers are one group, plus the new PDX drivers who have never even sat in an open wheel car. Pass out some handbills to the newbies at the track. Promote the class at Solo2 and track day events? Plant the seeds.
As drivers and car builders we are not good at marketing the open wheel product to prospects. (edit) I just recalled similar efforts by the guy who ran Race Car Associates in SoCal in the late 60's. I stumbled into his shop one day and saw a shiny yellow FV on the floor. I was penniless at the time, but it was just one more hook set in me to get into motorsports when I could.
Bill Bonow sponsored a FFirst test drive day in his area. He might fill you in on how he beats the drum. I wish you all the best in your efforts. I think FST is a great class concept. Anything to get drivers out of the fendered cars!
Best regards, Dan Wise
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bbonow
Regional Driver
Posts: 67
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Post by bbonow on Jun 16, 2009 5:27:12 GMT -8
Here is the funny part about our "test drive day" we just had at the Autobahn Country Club, all of the test drivers are current SM drivers tired of spending money to get to the front.
Not to start anything, but we gave up on targeting FV drivers a few years ago. We started out that way and if any would like to come join us, they are welcome with open arms. More recently, all of our newbies came from other classes or are completely new to racing.
Around here, FST is now closer to CFF than FV in performance at Regional races. However, that is partially due regional level preparation and weak entry levels in both FV and CFF. If compaired to National FV track records and Regional CFF records (most CFF records are 5 to 10 years old), FST is quicker than FV by about 1 to 2 seconds per track mile.
I would add that the amount of money spent to compair a National grade FV vs a well prepaired FST is no comparison. 25 heat cycle tires, 50 hour engines and $18 brake pads that last for two years is attractive to a whole bunch of people.
The biggest trick is getting the word out.
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Post by brian on Jun 16, 2009 9:01:04 GMT -8
I'm really bored so i have to ask, if the first is such a reliable motor, why are you guys going to a dry sump? You can't tell me that upping the torque by 50% doesn't cause issues. A recent west coast FST only ran about 3 weekends before a rebuild. It's all up to the package not the class.
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bbonow
Regional Driver
Posts: 67
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Post by bbonow on Jun 16, 2009 12:57:16 GMT -8
Brian,
If you have to ask (really bored), we started testing dry sump in mid '07 and became a legal option 1/1/08. Previous to that (wet sump days), we (as a group) had a ~ 5% oiling related failure rate. Once we went dry sump (virtually everyone back east since the start of '08), that rate instantly dropped to 0%. I don't know who ran 3 weekends on a rebuild (Lou and/or Eric, the wet sump twins) but Butch's engine now has over 35 hours, Carl's has over 22 and mine has about 8 (just getting broken in). They all run laps within tenths of each other. Once we allowed dry sump, the engine longevity/reliability skyrocketed.
I know its already been "poo-pooed" by the FV committee and the CRB, but dry sump works absolute wonders for oiling (and leaking) in VW air cooled engines.
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Post by brian on Jun 17, 2009 9:25:01 GMT -8
If you mean leaking due to overfilling, I agree. A few drops from the sump is simply VW. Accusumps prevent oil starvation and they're legal in FV. I rely on a well designed windage system and carefully checking oil every session.
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bbonow
Regional Driver
Posts: 67
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Post by bbonow on Jun 17, 2009 15:45:23 GMT -8
Brian,
Your getting a little off topic in your bordom. My "leak" point was that in FST, since the advent of dry sump, the cars don't leak, not from anywhere, period. It also removed all oil pressure drop outs that we could only see with DA (not gauges). This (dry sump) instantly made oil pressure stable as a rock and resulted in engine reliability and longevity increases.
How it is delt with in FV, I could care less (this is the FST section of this forum).
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Post by Bruce on Jun 17, 2009 17:41:42 GMT -8
Bill,
Let me start by saying I am totally against FST, since I did not agree with the initial concept of converting FV to FST. It seems like it is doing just that in your division, that is elimination of FV. I did not see any reason to add any more race classes, especially with the initial thought of replacing FV with FST.
As a stand alone class, there is not much interest. Mainly because most would get out before converting or building another car. There are a few exceptions like Marty.
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bbonow
Regional Driver
Posts: 67
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Post by bbonow on Jun 17, 2009 18:36:23 GMT -8
Bruce,
That would be a good explanation of why there is nobody building a car out west. It must be something in the air once you cross over those mountains. On a local midwest basis, we keep finding fresh new young (sub 40) people that want to join us. Most (if not all) of the conversions to date were garage queens that had been parked for years. Besides, we gave up on the salty old FV curmudgeons a while ago, old people smell funny.
For Marty to be an exception, he would be required to do something ;D
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Post by DerElf on Nov 16, 2010 8:34:11 GMT -8
Bill; Nice to come back to the board and have this little jewel of a diss waiting for me! Yer such a PAL! Seriously, since 2004 I have been the poster boy for "hit by the economy" (Actually it seems more like "hit by a bus"). If I hadn't been so afflicted Brian Swanson's M5, the only REAL M5 I might add (everything that has come after is about as much a Mysterian as the LOTUS is Formula One now is a Lotus), would be mine and I would be running it, Hell after all the Mysterian M5 project was design to fit me! I will say though that even though my Studios is still a "work in progress" and I am having to live with that whole PACEMAKER thing I have finally started to come out of remission, rejoined the club and have been talking to Blake about a kit. You will note the word TALKING, something that a lot of people do but I have avoided these past few years because it is CHEAP I know. I won't be back this year but I am shooting for 2012 and when I DO come back it will be in A Formula First. You can read about it over at my blogs www.teamelf.com and www.thebuckyproject.com
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Post by DerElf on Nov 16, 2010 8:35:18 GMT -8
Out of curiosity though what Dry Sump pump are you guys using?
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Post by Scott on Nov 16, 2010 9:08:30 GMT -8
"Brian Swanson's M5, the only REAL M5 I might add"Marty, Sorry, but I have to take exception to that .............. I believe that my M5 is still the only "REAL" M5 that has ever turned a wheel on a race track. IMO, It's not a real "race" car until it has been driven on the "race" track. You can call it a Mystique, however, it was 100% Mysterian M5. It would have been called a Mysterian, however, Kurt did not want to give up the name at the time I purchased the chassis from him.
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